ING Renault F1 Team Fan Site

McLaren's Finnish driver scored his first career victory this afternoon, while the ING Renault F1 Team saw both its drivers finish in the points to move up to 5th position in the constructors' championship.

At the start of the race Felipe Massa made a flying start from third on the grid to take the lead going into the first corner in front of the two McLarens of Lewis Hamilton and Hiekki Kovalainen. Both ING Renault F1 Team drivers made progress, emerging from the first corner in 6th and 8th positions. The order was then: Massa, Hamilton, Kovalainen, Glock, Kubica, Alonso, Raikkonen and Piquet.

However, during a combative opening lap, Nelson ran wide, allowing Mark Webber and Jarno Trulli to slip by, dropping Nelson back to 10th - where he had started.

On lap 18, Felipe Massa headed for the pits to make his first top. Lewis Hamilton followed him in a lap later. Timo Glock followed suit on lap 20, followed by Heikki Kovalainen and finally Kimi Raikkonen and Fernando Alonso. After the first stint, the classification was then as follows: Massa, Hamilton, Kovalainen and Glock.

Nelson made his first pit stop on lap 25, coming out just behind Kimi Raikkonen, but having leapfrogged the Toyota of Jarno Trulli. The two Renaults were therefore in 6th and 8th places. That became 5th and 7th once David Coulthard headed for the pits on lap 30.

There was drama on lap 41 when Lewis Hamilton, who was running 2nd just 4 seconds behind Massa, suffered a front left puncture. The Briton had to crawl back to the pits and lost a lot of time. The new order was then: Massa, with 23 seconds over Kovalainen, 28 over Glock and 45 over Alonso. Hamilton emerged in 10th having pitted for new tyres and fuelled until the end of the race.

On lap 44, Massa made his final stop, while Timo Glock made his second stop on lap 48. Kovalainen made his final stop a lap later. Fernando pitted�on lap 50 with Raikkonen stopping a lap later. That proved enough for the Finn to jump ahead of the Renault into 4th. The order was then: Massa, Kovalainen, Glock, Raikkonen, Alonso, with Lewis Hamilton having recovered to 6th.

Raikkonen proceeded to set some of the fastest laps of the race as he homed in on Glock, eating into the Toyota's lead by a second per lap as he challenged for the final podium spot. Another battle waged between Fernando and Lewis as they fought over 5th place. With 10 laps to go, the two men were separated by just 3 seconds, but the double world champion seemed to have the situation under control. With 5 laps of the race remaining Raikkonen had closed the gap to Glock and was all over the back of the Toyota.

But there was yet more drama to unfold as the Ferrari of Felipe Massa expired on the main straight with two laps to go. Heikki Kovalainen took the lead of the race in front of Glock and Raikkonen, who seemed to back off so not to encounter the same problems as his teammate. The three men therefore crossed the line in that order, while Fernando came home in 4th and Nelson in 6th.

The ING Renault F1 Team leaves Hungary having scored 8 points and moved in to 5th position in the constructors' championship, just 4 adrift of Toyota.

Well done to both drivers and the team, it was a really enjoyable race to watch (the McClaren and Ferrari supporting members of the family were a bit quiet for a change!).

It seems a good solid result as they would have still picked up points even if Hamilton and Massa had not had their problems.
Shame Toyota also got a good haul of points, and that Massa didn't get the result he deserved after that excellent move at the 1st corner!

Well Done Fernando, Nelson and the team here's hoping for more results like this after the holidays.

Heikki is actually the only driver I care about (besides our team's drivers) and I am soo glad he won this!

It's a really good result for us too, the car seemed able to hold off attacks over a longer stint and we didn't lose places. Let's hope it's not track related and real progress has been made. If it wasn't for the Toyotas this would have been a perfect result. But we shall take the edge in the coming races, right?

Well done guys, great results from the whole team.

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2008/gp ...

Shame for Massa, he really deserved a win today

On the other hand - how did Raikkonen manage to come in front of Alonso after 2nd pitstop? If I recall correctly, he ran wide on same lap that Alonso made his pitstop, dropping him even more behind Alonso. How did he manage to come in front of him in that one extra lap? That's too bad, that could've been a podium for Alonso... :\

Was it traffic that Alonso was holded durring Kimi's stop?

as i wrote yesterday (post 15 about the friday session) renault is off the pace of 1,5 second versus Mclaren and Ferrari and almost 1 second off Glock wuth Toyota.
exactly like the begennineg of the year..no progress
only bmw has stopped his developlement but they have 60 points of advantage

Well done!
Go Renault Go

Like many of you, I was left scratching my head after Kimi jumped ahead of Fernando at the second stop. After Kimi�s mistake he was about 4 seconds behind us and Fernando pitted on the next lap. It was a shame because Fernando had done a marvellous job of holding him off all afternoon. As it turned out, losing that spot cost us a podium.

Still, we have to be pleased with the result. As Pat Symonds said after the race, this was probably our best race of the year because we had genuine race pace to match our qualifying pace. Another 8 points are very welcome: that makes 16 from the last two races.

I also see a lot of you pointing out the strength of Toyota, which is something I agree with. Glock was very strong and they are definitely going to be tough competition for the rest of the championship. And what about Red Bull? Well, they�ve been off the pace for the last two races, but I reckon they will bounce back. All that is for sure is that the final seven races are going to be very competitive and we will need to keep pushing hard with the development of the R28 if we are to take fourth by the end of the season.

But for now most of the team will be taking some much earned rest. It�s three weeks until Valencia � a brand spanking new circuit which promises to be a great spectacle. And it�s a home race for our Fernando so there�s sure to be an amazing atmosphere. I can�t wait for that one�

I think Kimi just had enough clear space in front when Fernando went into the pits to find that extra bit of time - coupled with having to put in one less lap of fuel. Its easy to forget the Kimi is in a Ferrari which by all accounts is still faster than Renault on pure pace. 8 tenths in one lap is hardly inconceivable considering how Kimi was driving afterwards and set the fastest lap when in clear air.

It's just one of those things we have to accept.

@ 4 AND 5
THAT WAS THE SAME QUESTION i ASKED WHEN IT HAPPENED

I already expected Kimi would overtake Fernando in the second pit stop, though i still don't know how that happened exactly, it was not such a big surprise.

I felt sorry for Massa, engine blow up 3 laps before the race win...he spoilt some plans of others at the start, and he deserved the win. Heikki was only lucky with that.

How come the Toyotas have become so good? If i remember where they have been last year...

I think it was a very good race from both Fernando and Nelson, and the finish with a sandwitched Hamilton was priceless.

I think the whole paddock felt sorry for Felipe. To come so close and have it snatched away from you is quite galling. It was probably his best drive to date as most people expected Lewis to romp away with this one.

As a former Renault driver, the whole team was pleased to see Heikki do well. Although he inherited the win, they all count!

well it was about time 'luck' favoured Heikki after quite a few bad runs, when there were a couple he could have won.

What goes around comes around, I say, and a lot of that happened today from various angles - and hopefully the same will be the case in the future for Massa losing out on his win.

I agree, definitely Massa's best race to date. He was almost driving/overtaking like his life was on the line

But anyway, at least we can wind down for three weeks with a positive feeling after today. Can't wait for the podcast.

Alonso:"In my second stop was convinced that was going to leave in front of Raikkonen, something that we could do in the first detention. But he surprised me a lot to see that he was something as well as 500 meters more in front of me when he left pits. Some returns before stopping, he had left a little bit one and I thought that with that he was going to be sufficient, but he did not reach. My returns of entrance to trail after the detention were good, and that, the second, even he was better than the first one, but Raikkonen left before. We have to analyze very well what happened. Would be able to have had the podium within reach of the hand"

I think the team should be a lot more pleased with Fernando and Nelson today than with any 'former' driver who is exactly with the team now that screwed Fernando last season. So i don't quite understand whats the reason for the Renault team to be *happy' about that, excuse me.
Any Heikki- fans left here should go to one of his fan-forums to celebrate.

whats wrong with being happy for Heikki BM? He didn't exactly do anything wrong to Renault...if anything he was an extremely close part of the Renault family once upon a time, and that bond doesn't disappear if you're in a team that treats you like a part of a family rather than a part of a company.

I'm sorry, but that just seems really unsportsmanlike; even if he weren't part of Renault at one time, its common practice to be happy for a driver who has just won his first formula one race - not everyone is blessed...ask Webber!

I'm a fan of Heikki...should I not be here?

F1 isn't a tribal warzone where people have to choose a definitive side, and be cast out if its not the same as ours.

I know many people (including myself) feel animosity towards Heikki's current team, but that is in no way shape or form anything to do with being happy for Heikki himself and his achievements.

I await the backlash...

oh and if you remember, Renault were always happy for Fernando last year, and in fact always publicly gave him and only him support to win the title...but I guess that was ok?

No backlash from me, the drivers aren't responsible for any poor actions on the part of their management in previous seasons.

Well said amc. Heikki was part of the Renault family and still has many friends in the team. We're happy to see him do well, even though we'd rather win ourselves

Bravo for Fernando and Nelson,very good job for Renault and both drivers in the points-it's very good result!I'm sorry for Felipe Massa,he made a great race,but I think that Heiki deserve this win and I'm happy for him.I hope that Renault will continue to develop and the next podium to be in the next race!

Thats true @amc but Heikki was with Renault one season and Fernando has won two titles with and for the team. I can see a small difference here. But anyway, thanks for clearing that up with the second part of your last sentence RF1.

im so happy for heikki he has had such rotten luck the season good on him. I havent seen the race as of yet but ive got i recorded and intend to watch it soon but 8 points isnt half bad it shows improvement aswell because we were practicaly there on merit so im happy. also havent we score more points in the last two races then we had all season before germany you see when we dont have rotten luck were not half bad. also @6 i dont think we are a second behind toyoto otherwise trulli would have blasted past us but he didnt so it was just glock driving his socks off

Great show Fernando and Nelson,at long last the R28 beast is showing sighns of its pedigree, Alonso was Fantastic. Shame for Massa, excelent job Heikki. well deserve, please try Not to be 2nd to None

Congrats Renault F1, before this race they had 999 GP points.
They scored 8 points to make it 1007 points. just great.

Congratulations Nelson and Fernando. Both cars in the points is always a good result =)

And I'm very happy for 'our' Heikki... he may not be in Renault right now, but he'll always have a special place in this team... Well done, Heikki!

doubly happy - first Heikki win, Fernando and Nelson doing well, and now Andy Murray winning first Masters Series title in tennis...big grin on my face!

Looking forward to Olympics now to keep me busy while I wait for our next 'home' GP in Valencia

i am so happy with the result today our drivers drove out of their skin and i am really proud of them as is everyone.. wel done boys wish it wasnt 3 weekst till the next race .. thats ages

wil miss f1 xx

After some depressing races, finally could saw some uplifting sign!!!Super race for both of Renault Driver also a great break through for Heikki!!!!
Now hoping that maybe Fernando could made his first podium for Renault in this year!!!

As some of us already pointed out, I also wonder why Kimi came in front of FA after the second pit stop.
I was certain about FA being 4th, in front of Kimi and that would have brought him to the Podium.
I'm always quite nervous during the pit stop.
I don't remember which race, but that was one of the earlier races, FA's stop was more that 10 sec.
At least as far as I remember, Renault is not the best in this matter.
When the car is not the fastest, the team should save a few seconds in every other way.

the thing is renault is a good team mysmer and they know a hell of a lot more about it than you and me. just need trust in the team now .. unlucky for alonso yday about not gettin on podium but he knows it wil hapen again he knows that it won't just be a lucky 3rd or 2nd one day he shall be winning again like he used to .. we all know that. so what if alonsos pitstop had been over 10second in previous races .. the team know what they are doin !! its their job!!

The gap IIRC was 4.5 seconds. The Ferrari is not 4 seconds faster! If Alonso didn't make any mistake and neither did the team at the pit stop ...
I don't wanna start any conspiracy theory but seconds don't dissapear.
It gave me the impression Kim got closer inside the pitlane, how close to the speed limit is the R28 going? is there something to gain there by fine tuning?
Also I read in Spanish media that the team found out by chance last GP (with the SC) that doing a few laps at reduced speed with new tyres makes them work better after? Is this true?

I can assure you mysmer that the race crew spend a long time training for pit-stops. We know how important they are and that every second counts. Each race weekend involves practice so that the whole team becomes perfectly drilled. I think it was the shere pace of Kimi on his in and out laps that cost us the position.

Also wanted to let you guys know that there will not be a podcast following this race as there usually is. We will have a bumper podcast after the Valencia race when there will be lots to discuss. I know that's a long wait, but it will be worth it.

This is an excellent site (if championships were won on the quality of the fan site then Renault would have it in the bag!) it just seems a real shame that after each race there are always some really critical comments on the teams actions when they are obviously going to be doing all they can based on the info and decisions made during the race.

Maybe it just goes to highlight what a fantastic job Fernando was doing in keeping Kimi at bay.
It looked for possibly the first time this year that he was happy with the car and could concentrate on fighting the other drivers rather than the car.

Have a good break RF1PP, not sure how the rest of us are going to manage for 3 weeks without our 'fix' of F1!

As teomolca pointed out, Ferrari cannot be 4 seconds faster. According to this:

http://www.fia.com/hungarygp/documents/H ...

Alonso didn't make a mistake on his in or out lap, his lap times are comparable to other teams. Actually his inlap is rather good. You can also see Raikkonen's mistake on lap 50, where he lost 2 seconds to Alonso. But his outlap is approximately 3 seconds better than Alonso's. I don't recall Ferrari doing 3 seconds better pitstop. I don't know, it just seems so suspicious to me, I hope you find out what happened.

great to see the progress being made starting to pay off! unlike most i'm afraid there is nothing on the earth that makes me happier than a red car with smoke pouring out the back, except of course a car from enstone winning!!

would be great to know how kimi managed to time travel.. rup

Hi,

good race, good work Renault.

Thanks for your post Rulietta, but I had to remove it as this is not really the place to post comments criticising another driver and team.

I�m glad that you were so pleased with the team�s performance though, and I can tell you that the mood in the factory is pretty positive this morning.

Regarding your comment about Lewis and his tyres, I think that Bridgestone have suggested this was probably cut by some debris, although they are still looking into it.

Thanks for the link musicman, so looking at the pit laps Kimi's 2nd one was a 1:43, his first one was a 1:48!!, both of Massa's were 1:47 with the same car.
So it simply is unlogical he found 5 seconds from one pit lap to the other and so much quicker than Massa also.
It's really fishy...
Could be Kimi did an unreal lap ... but other explanations are more simple and logical.
FA did a good out lap 1:47 so at least the team and him can have their conscience clear ... maybe others can't say the same.

Debris lol, debris doesn't grow in the tarmac. There where no crashes to generate debris, nobody else had problems, Hamilton has blown several tyres by overcooking every braking with his cab driver style. But of course it's phantom debris that can't be found. hahahaha

I saw on Friday that Hamiltons tyres looked like slicks after two flying laps, both on the left side. I guess he was set to break one in the race.
How Kimi managed to pass Fernando that easy in his second pitstop, coming out 500 m in front of him, i still have no idea.

To RF1: It's ok; I guess I got carried away. I'll avoid mentioning my favorite team in the world now lol.

Anyways, concerning the "debris", I don't buy it. Like it's just been said, debris don't grow in the tarmac, if so, how comes he was the only one to whom it happened, twice in the same weather conditions? We all know he blocks his wheels really harsh, much harsher than the other drivers. It's ok for Bridgestone to release that statement, and it's fair to McLaren (why, I don't know, anyways). But this is just an official statement. We all know there is a large difference between the truth and official statements.

Now yes, as I said, I don't care two pints about the others results because it has been a very very good race for Renault in terms of regularity, and quality, as much from the drivers than the team. I really enjoyed it a lot as a spectacle, and I was pleased to see that all the efforts made start to pay off. I truly hope Nando can make it to the podium in Valencia now.

I'm obviously happy with result but I saw some posts mentioning Nando keeping Kimi behind as though as if our car was good as Ferrari. Sorry to say but although Nando as always did a magnificient job we have to keep in mind that in Hungary overtaking is almost impossible. keep in mind that when Kimi overtook Nando in pit stop, Kimi made the fastest laps cause he had nobody in front of him to disturb, although then he slowed cause was afraid of engine blow

Go Renault go

what was that, again
fernando gave it all but AGAIN another middle team went to podium, except us

did u saw the fastest lap that heikki did?
he's so slow
he did 1.21.7 as his fastest lap...
fernando did 1.21.7 too

heikki isnt fast, but very lucky

our pitstop team did a mistake i think, cuz i cant understand how kimi, with slow pace, a huge spin did went ahead of fernando after the pitstop

can anyone throw light on the Alonso/honda reports today?
The result of a journalist with nothing better to do (most likely)or has Fernando changed his mind about Sushi?!

With a 3 weeks break until the next race i guess we can expect journalists to do their best to keep the audience entertained somehow. So either don't read it, or see it as it is- entertainement.

in valenthia alonso you must do your best

I back you up Daniela. We must expect a whole lot of rumors. But it is unlikely for Fernando to leave Renault in '09.

well, i dont think alonso likes this situation, honda will be even worse than us in 2009 but alonso needs to go in bmw or ferrari

next year i dont think alonso wants just to take a podium finish and be eigth in the championship..
i think he wanna be a world champ again

and renault must prove that to him, im sure he is seeing what our guys are doing at enstone *2009 car, if he sees a bad car im sure he'll prefer even honda

Why Flavio is so against introduction of Kers? is it because we are still much behind in development?? We ain't competing for title like in o6 and have the excuse in 07. even the engine must be evoluted, if others did go to the limit re legality of frozen engine so we must do the same.
I know everyone is doing the maximum but as a supporter I feel to say these comment.
You know what I really enjoyed in this race, when Nelson came out of pits finding Trulli on his way, but he showed he's got balls and took him right there

to be honest i sincearly doubt honda will get alonso considering ross brawn said they would be keeping button and barrichello so you know we have no worries about him going to honda.

oh i also thought id give u guys a little factoruny in 2007 by round 11 we had 33 points in 2008 we have 31 points after 11 rounds so to be honest were not that far of 2007

oh yeh and up to round 9 this season we had 15 points in the last two races we have scored 16 lol in two races we have done what we did in 9 lol

sorry to do loads of posts but i keep thinking of things but erm i have a question. Can the team use two different sets of tires on the car at once so have hard rear tires and soft front tires?

Kimi had a good in lap, made a good pitstop with 1 lap less fuel needed, and did a great out lap on the supersofts.
I'm sure Honda wants Alonso for at least 2 years. It will also be one of the only teams that will certain be competitive next year, even if they are at the back this year!
It all depends if he can have a seat at Ferrari for 2011. It would be a good move even if it doesn't look like it at the moment.
$15m a year is maybe a little too less ;o) Make it 20 and it's a deal.

@49
flavio tells that cause i think renault dont even practiced even for a minute about kers, they spend money for this lost season, so the budget for next year will be even more less, so worst car than this years'

im extremely happy for nelson and nando though, they both ROCK, they drive awesomly, if u see something, nelson did the FOURTH fastest lap of the hungary gp, wow nelson

you're very fast mate

if he keeps it like that i'd like to see toyota behind us but they are fast..

Hello this is my first time at this blog. Flavio is against kers maybe because the team hasn't enough money for the evolution of R28 and the development of R29 at the same time. If it is so, i think the team must focus on R29. BMW and Honda already did it. R29 must be o front runner.

@ayrton: I think you're right about the limited budget. Too many changes already for next year. KERS will even make it more expensive while the goal was to reduce the costs in F1 if i'm not mistaken.
All 10 team voted again to postpone the KERS system for another year but only 6 teams voted to wait another year while they needed 7 votes. Honda and Mclaren voted for KERS in 2009 and probably Williams too since it is probably the only team that will start with KERS in 2009.

Oh, Fernando did a 1:21.7 while Nelson did a 1:21.5 I think.

)

Does anyone have the fastest laptimes during the race?

I just watched the times.

Nelson was 4th fastest, only 4 hundreds slower than Lewis.

Kimo 1:21.195
Felipe 1:21.355
Lewis 1:21.493
Nelson 1:21.537
Nando 1:21.793

By the way, thanks Musicman for the link ;o)

gutted to hear theres no podcast....how will I get closure and survive 3 weeks?!

I was surprised as well to see Kimi getting out of the pits earlier than Fernando. I paid attention to the times and Renault took like 2 secs more in the stop than Ferrari. Still they should have exited very closely because kimi had already lost time when he ran wide. This is a real mistery. Now comes Valencia, first night F1 race ever, and the trak is completely new. No one knows what the hell will happen. Nice feeling I can´t wait.

Oh I almost forgot... what about the Honda´s offer to Fernando: http://www.thef1.com/noticias/noticias-2 ...
¿Is this beleivable?

velencia isnt a night race its singapour thats at night

CAF904 - an 'offer' is not the same as an 'acceptance'

Anyway, rumours are just rumours and nothing more. Ross Brawn has been singing Fernando's praises since 2005/2006 - while he was supposed to be seeing the rest of his career out with McLaren. It doesn't really mean much until anything is officially announced. How many teams have we had linked to Fernando this year? There's still Force India to go... :p

He still has 'renault' on his clothing.

More about Kimi's 2nd pitstop:
In an interview with As.com Remi Taffin (Alonso's engine engineer) he analyses what happened, and according to him Kimi gained 2 seconds in the pitstop. HOW ON EARTH did they do this when they should just have been a couple of tenths quicker (1 lap less of fuel).
So I went to f1.com pit stop summary to shed some light to Ferrari's marvelous pit stop and what a coincidence, there was a "problem" with Kimi's measuring system, and he is the only driver who's pitstops are not recorded in the list.
http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2 ...

This stinks!

I dunno what to say about it kimi had a lap i think to gain 4 or 5 seconds of fernando now there pit stop max was 1 second faster and his lap was possibly 2 seconds faster so that leaves 1 or 2 seconds lead for fernando so i dont know what happened unless fernando made a mistake on his out lap?

I didn't hear anything about Fernando making a mistake, and Kimi's pitstop was the first thing he was wondering about in the post-race interview.

How can it be that Kimi's times are not on the list- they should really look into that!

i suppose the only thing we can try and work out is what could have been done to enable kimi to gain so much ground over fa. the whole event was in real time so either fa lost time or kr gained in some way. as far as we know fa didn't do a bad in or out and his stop was between 1 and 2 seconds longer. which leaves us with what kr did.. surely the rate at which he was fuelled can be the only variable? what else is there? could his fuel rig have become 'accidentally' pressurised due to high temperatures forcing fuel in and not gravity as i think is the case normally? 3 other teams rigs where badly effected hence the fuel spills.. i really don't know.. but as i watched i could not believe the massive advantage that kr seemed to have over fa in such a short period of the race, we are talking pretty much the length of the main straight from nowhere!

then of course the lack of kr's pit stop timings.. very very odd indeed!

i know we all want fa and np to do well and maybe this is us just dreaming.. but something odd did happen i'm sure of it..

rup

amc:"CAF904 - an 'offer' is not the same as an 'acceptance'"

You´re soooo right... beleive me when I say I hope FA stays with renault 1 more year. I think we all hope that here. I would understand (from de racer point of view) if FA decided to go to another team... more competitive team, ¿but Honda?. Also it Would be hilarious to see FA on a force india... really.

#70 The refuelling machines don't work at atmospheric pressure, they have a ceratin pressure limited by the FIA.
It wouldn't be the first time someone rigs the machine to get quicker refuelings (removing filter).

the thing that also puzzles me is that it wasnt like kimi just ever so slightly piped us, he was miles ahead there has to be something that we missed be it problems with alonso or a poor get away from the pitlane or something cause thats just wierd

The thing here is that if the car is ok and mechanics are concentrated... it would take almost the same time to pit for FA and KR (the first stop was the perfect example). I remember that ferrari took almost 2 secs less in the change of tyres and refueling. But as Kimi ran wide earlier those two advantage secs were lost... so they should have exited pits almost at the same time even if the ferrari exited earlier. If KR was so far away from FA when our driver was on his run out the only explanation would be that Kimi was crossing the pit semaphore when Feranndo was just begining to leave. In order to do that Kimi must have entered the pits really really fast. May be he forgot to switch speed limiter on. It would be very useful to have the pitstop times summary (including kimi´s times

)...
Something dark has happened here

well done Alonso, Nelson and RF1. More points and podium finishes.=)

Do you guys think Kimi took a short cut ?

Alonso's in lap 2nd pitstop 1:24.326
out lap 1:47.032

Kimi's in lap 2nd pitstop 1:23.551 = - 0.775 sec
out lap 1:43.921 = - 3.111 sec

When looking at these times it's clear that Kimi just had a good in lap and a great out lap.

we dont need to take into acount kimi's outlap because he was already ahead of alonso when he was doing his outlap. I wouldent question it if it was a few tenths difference but he was miles ahead